but you look at winnable states like wisconsin, indiana, michigan, and especially ohio and pennsylvania. and you need a candidate -- >> rick perry's not going to win, though. >> you're going to need a candidate that's going to rock the suburbs in the industrial west. and that's a key value. >> you got one? >> yeah. >> i actually think romney is the de facto real front runner here. and we could have a late entry. there's a tremendous amount of chris christ christie-mentum if he gets in. i think people are looking at who is the anti-romney. what you described is happening. we go from trump to bauchman to perry. and this is really just a gauntlet that romney is running through before picking up the national -- >> and just sort of to reflect the lack of enthusiasm of romney that everybody's looking for something else. >> remember that four years ago, mccain right now was at 8 because it was anybody but mccain and then he made it. >> michael steele -- >> yeah. >> chime in. >> just a real quick question, i guess i want to ask the senator, but ask more broadly, as well. so given everything tha